CAMEL - Central Asian Media Electronic List
Issue#2. February 29th, 2000

website address: www.camsp.osh.kg
email:
alisher@elcat.osh.su; vicken.cheterian@cimera.org

 

5. Situation of mass-media in Uzbekistan

 

Interview with the former Chief editor and former member of the Uzbek Parliament

Karim Bahriev

 

Brief biographical facts:

 

1985 - graduated from the Faculty of Journalism of Moscow State University.

1985-1990 - worked as a reporter and chief of a department of Literaturnaya Gazeta.

In 1990 was elected a member of the Parliament of Uzbekistan, and for five years worked in the committees for ethnic issues, information and glasnost. Initiated the

Law on the Mass Media and the Copyright Law.

Since 1995 worked in the paper of the Ministry of Education, and later on published his own magazine specialized in the legal matters under the title  “ Economy and Law”.

When in 1996, President Karimov started to talk about the priorities of economic reforms, Karim Bahriev publicly disagreed with some provisions, stating that economy cannot develop without political reforms. " The economy needs free-thinking people as well" he wrote in his article. Soon after that, President also started to point to the importance of political reforms, stating that " Economic reforms are in a deadlock because of lack of political reforms." Tthe National Human Rights Center, an institution which was supposed to monitor acting laws and their implementation was created shortly after. A position of the Representative of the Olii Majlis ( parliament) on Human Rights was also created along with other democratic institutions.

In 1997 Karim Bahriev started publishing an independent newspaper Huriet, but later he left the paper.

 

Q:        How did it go with the paper?

 

A:         After the publication of the first issue I was requested to visit the Deputy Prime-minister, after the second issue, the Chairman of State Committee on Mass Media, and after the third issue the presidential office. The newspaper was published without censorship, and was sharply critical, without any praise for anyone. I think I was right,  but I was told by many people that I should have known the limits and should have divided everything 50/50. We were criticizing social policies.

 

Q:        Did you criticize the President?

 

A:         The president confesses that he is responsible for everything in the country, that he does not sleep at nights, that all problems end up at his desk, that ministers cannot solve anything themselves… I remember, when he was interviewed by Radio Liberty in Prague, he said that as a president he would have liked to spend his weekends in a country retreat like in Finland and have a normal working day. But he cannot, because ministers refuse even to have contacts with mass media. Hence, when I criticize the Minister of Social security or Health, it appears that I criticize the President, because he is responsible for everything. But the President also says that these corrupt Ministers have to be criticized.

 

Q:        Why did you leave the newspaper?

 

A:         After the fifth issue I was told that each issue of the newspaper must be shown to certain services before it is published. I could have refused to consider their objections to articles, but I didn't want anyone to rule my paper and left. If I had not left, the newspaper would  have been shut down and I did not want that. After me they appointed a consultant from the Presidential apparatus as a Chief editor. The paper was founded by the Fund of Democratization of Press, an NGO which is in fact under the control of the Government.

Afterwards I started the Economy and Law Magazine, but after one of the articles, I was forced to leave it too.

 

Q:        During the CAMSP Tashkent Conference, you asked the participants a rhetorical question: Does the mass media need democratization? I would like to ask you the same question, and would like to know how the democratization should go on- quickly?  gradually? What is the role of the mass media in this process?

 

A:            There is a lot of talking and articles here, about how journalists in Tajikistan were given a freedom to write whatever they wanted, and ended up by starting a civil war there. Hence, Uzbek journalists should not be given so much freedom in order to avoid a civil war. People can think themselves, and they won't necessarily follow anything journalists write. We should increase the public opinion to such a level, that if a journalist is not right, people will not follow his words. Some think that the population is not yet ripe for democracy.  I don't think so. People are ready for democracy, perhaps bureaucrats aren't ready, and that's why they don't want democracy in order to rule people by non-democratic methods. It is not in the interests of bureaucrats and corrupt officials if people are ready for democracy.

 As for the speed of the process, I will say the following. It is assumed that the mentality of our people considers a respect for the power, state officials, Tsars.

But do the authorities have the right to exploit this notion of mentality and expect people to bare? There is no need to appeal to the mentality. If the authorities are normal, people will respect them anyway.

 

Q:       You have an interesting situation. The law on Mass Media prohibits censorship and everyone is free to write whatever they want. But on the practice it is the opposite. How is it possible to get out of the gap exiting between the reality and the laws?  Is it possible to have a certain freedom under the present leadership or do you need political changes?

 

A:         On the one hand, there is a certain freedom. An example of it is the CAMSP Conference in Tashkent. There are international organizations, foreign embassies, different funds involved in political life of the country. Here we have many laws on Mass Media. There is no special Law on journalism in America, but the journalist is protected. There is even an anecdote about this: In the Soviet Union the freedom of speech is protected, and in the United States those who made that speech are also protected. Even American and European journalists can envy Uzbek journalists-we have five or six laws about Mass Media with numerous accompanying legal acts etc. Nevertheless, there is no free Mass Media. If laws allow that certain freedom, legal decrees easily take them away.

 

Q:        Can you bring recent examples of blatant violations of  rights of journalists? 

 

A:         On November 19-20, 1999 TV stations in Gulistan and Urgench were shut down based on a decree of the regional communications inspection. According to the Article 16 of the Law on Mass Media, activities of any outlet can be suspended only by a decision of a Court, the founder or the registering authority. The regional communications inspection was none of these. And besides, any decision by the above mentioned three instances, can be appealed in a Court of higher instance.

 

Q:        Have the heads of these TV stations appealed to the court?

 

 A:         The director of Urgench TV station has appealed to the city court and has filed a suit against the deputy Hakim and the head of this inspection. The very next day he was visited by the tax police for inspection. But these guys  are ready to fight to the end and at present this issue is still under investigation. But these journalists do not believe in the court justice. Our judges are not elected but appointed for five years, and they do not think about the laws, they think how to be appointed again. They are financed by the ministry of finance, and this means that  they depend on the executive authority, not on the budget. One telephone call of a Hakim can influence the court decision. Their arguments for closing the stations are astonishing. The deputy Hakim wrote in the court documents, that the reason he ordered the TV station closed, was that it highlights only negative facts, and not a single positive one. He wrote that there is little criticism and no praise at all, and this is why it must be closed. Or the deputy Hakim of Serdalin Region wrote that the programs  of the local TV station are not professional. But again this is  not in his competence. If the TV station is not good, it closes itself for it loses viewers and advertisements.

 

Q:        How does the journalists’ attitude towards the freedom of speech change?

 

A.                 I cannot answer for all journalists. They are also different. There are corrupted journalists who serve the power. There are journalists who write honestly, and there are also journalists who are waiting to see.  Besides, the Mass Media or journalists cannot be free if development of the society remains within its old frames. Mass Media needs a normal parliament. All our Hakims and members of the parliament adopt laws, implement them, and check their implementation all by themselves. There must be independent lawyers, strong NGOs, human rights groups, and when all these will be in place, there can be a democratic media. I do not have any illusions about the timing and do not think it will happen very soon, but I want to see it, I want to see the democracy, I cannot wait only because someone thinks that the people has not matured yet.

 

Q:     Do you mean to say that the development of the fourth power is connected with the development of other branches of the power?

 

A:     Yes, I do. It is like one house: if the columns are of different heights, the roof will fall down. Journalists must push Courts to be more independent openly discussing  issues of the courts.

Interviewed by Hakop Asatryan,

Tashkent – Prague.